SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SANTA CRUZ LANDRY & FOY BUILDERS, INC., ) a California Corporation, ) ) Plaintiff, ) ) vs. ) No. CV 157690 ) KRISTEN DYER, ERIC LECHNER, ) et al., ) ) Defendants. ) ________________________________) DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL Date: Thursday, December 6, 2007 Time: 10:10 a.m. Location: 133 Mission Street Santa Cruz, California Reported by: ROBIN E. RIVIELLO, CSR, RPR License No. 11694 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 4 For the Plaintiff: BURTON, VOLKMANN & SCHMAL BY: ANNA DiBENEDETTO, 5 Attorney at Law 133 Mission Street 6 Suite 102 Santa Cruz, California 95060 7 (831) 425-5023 8 9 10 For the Defendants: REDENBACHER & BROWN, LLP BY: GARY F. REDENBACHER, 11 Attorney at Law 1414 Soquel Avenue 12 Suite 212 Santa Cruz, California 95062 13 (831) 439-8821 14 15 16 Also present: BOB LANDRY GREG FOY 17 18 19 20 --o0o-- 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 2 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 2 I N D E X O F E X A M I N A T I O N S 3 4 Examination by: Page: 5 Ms. DiBenedetto 4 6 7 8 9 10 I N D E X O F E X H I B I T S 11 12 A Deposition Subpoena, 3 pages 7 13 B Landry & Foy Job Descriptions, 1 page 11 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 3 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 CHARLES A. CAMPBELL, 2 called as a witness, having been first duly sworn by the 3 Certified Shorthand Reporter to tell the truth, the whole 4 truth, and nothing but the truth, testified as follows: 5 6 EXAMINATION BY MS. DiBENEDETTO 7 Q. Mr. Campbell, we've met previously. As you know, 8 I'm Anna DiBenedetto and I represent Landry & Foy in this 9 lawsuit that they filed against Kristen Dyer and Eric 10 Lechner relating to the work they did on their house. 11 Have you ever had your deposition taken before? 12 A. No. 13 Q. Let me explain to you briefly the procedure. As 14 you know, a court reporter is here. You are under oath, 15 and everything you say today has the same force and effect 16 as if you were testifying in court. What is going to 17 happen is she is going to take down everything you say. 18 She is going to put it into a booklet format. You'll have 19 an opportunity to go through that booklet, make any 20 changes that you need to make. If you make any changes of 21 a substantive nature and we go to arbitration, those could 22 affect your credibility if I question you on those. 23 A. Okay. 24 Q. And the only reason I bring that up is to remind 25 you of the importance of thinking about what I'm asking DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 4 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 you. Make sure you understand my question. Because she 2 is taking everything down, you'll need to let me finish my 3 questions -- 4 A. Sure. 5 Q. -- before you answer. 6 A. Okay. 7 Q. And you didn't just then. 8 A. Okay. 9 Q. It makes a much cleaner record. I tend to talk 10 fast as well, so I will do my best to let you finish your 11 answer before I ask the next question. 12 A. Can I ask a question? 13 Q. You can. 14 A. In the deposition if there is something that I 15 recall later on that broadens something or adds more 16 information, am I allowed to add that later on? 17 Q. No. 18 A. No? 19 Q. Not unless -- well, you can add it if you testify 20 in arbitration. You can certainly elaborate on your 21 testimony that you give in deposition as you need to. But 22 I'm going to ask you today if you are going to be giving 23 me all of the opinions that you might be when we go to 24 arbitration. If you tell me today that you are and then 25 in arbitration you have more opinions, that could be DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 5 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 construed in not such a favorable way. 2 A. Or recollection of more detail? 3 Q. Sure. 4 MR. REDENBACHER: Probably the best thing to do 5 is to tell us that this is what you remember to the best 6 of your recollection today. 7 THE WITNESS: Okay. This environment is new for 8 me. 9 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO 10 Q. And it is informal, and -- 11 A. I'm uncomfortable. 12 Q. Don't be. It is a very informal setting. The 13 only reason I am giving you the admonitions and the rules 14 is to make sure that you understand that you are 15 testifying under oath. 16 If you don't understand something that I'm 17 asking, feel free to ask for clarification. 18 If you need a break to get some coffee, water, we 19 can take a break any time you need to. 20 Don't guess at anything. We're entitled to get 21 your best estimate, but I wouldn't want you to guess. For 22 instance, you can estimate the length of this table for 23 me, but if you haven't seen the desk in my office, which I 24 haven't seen because there is so much paper on it, you 25 would be guessing if you were to tell me the dimensions of DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 6 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 it. So that is the difference. 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Any reason that you think that you might not be 4 able to give your best testimony today? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Are you taking any medication that might affect 7 your ability to recall events? 8 A. None whatsoever. 9 Q. You were served with a subpoena, and I want to 10 mark this subpoena as Exhibit A to your deposition 11 transcript. Do you recall receiving this subpoena? I 12 will give you a copy of it. 13 A. It is the same thing I have. Right? 14 MR. REDENBACHER: Yes. 15 THE WITNESS: Yeah. 16 (Deposition Exhibit A marked for identification.) 17 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 18 Q. The last page asks you to bring certain records 19 with you today. So you handed to me this Landry & Foy job 20 description sheet. 21 A. Right. 22 Q. That is everything that you had that was 23 responsive to this document request? 24 A. Correct. I don't think that is exactly what the 25 sheet is called, is it? DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 7 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. Landry & Foy Builders Job Description. 2 A. Oh, okay. 3 Q. This is what you gave me in the hallway. Do you 4 want to look at the records request to make sure that 5 there is not something else? 6 A. I don't have anything. I have given everything 7 over to the Dyers. There was no reason for me to hang on 8 to it. I didn't expect to go back to the job. 9 Q. Do you recall what you gave the Dyers? 10 A. Oh, it would be all of the records and files that 11 I had as far as notes and sketches and blueprints and 12 anything that I had that was pertaining to the job. 13 Q. Why would you give that to them and not to your 14 employer, not to Landry & Foy? 15 A. Well, we were fired and we were kicked off the 16 job, and the only contact I had with the job from then on 17 was with the owners. They wanted their paperwork. 18 Q. So when you say you were fired, you were fired by 19 Landry & Foy or you were fired by the Dyers? 20 A. Landry & Foy. 21 Q. And when you say "we" -- 22 A. Well, to be honest, I don't know if it was laid 23 off or fired. 24 Q. I'm asking, and I'm not trying to be unduly 25 adversarial. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 8 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. You are doing your part. 2 Q. Why would you give work product that belonged to 3 Landry & Foy to the home owners? Did you feel that it 4 belonged to them over Landry & Foy? 5 MR. REDENBACHER: Objection. Asked and answered. 6 MS. DiBENEDETTO: He is going to state objections 7 to the form of my questions. Nobody will instruct you not 8 to answer because I don't believe we have the right to, 9 really. 10 MR. REDENBACHER: We can suggest it only on a 11 constitutional issue, but that is up to you. 12 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 13 Q. So I may state objections as well if Gary asks 14 you questions. They are just objections for the record. 15 After he states his objection, you can answer the 16 question. 17 A. Okay. 18 Q. Do you recall what the question was? 19 A. Yes. Well, in my opinion even though I'm working 20 or working up to that point with Landry & Foy, once they 21 had laid me off I was no longer in their employ. And in 22 my opinion, then, any of the work that I had done on that 23 job site from the moment I clocked in to the moment I left 24 that job site was a product being paid for by the Dyers, 25 and there is no reason why a product that was being paid DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 9 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 for by the Dyers should go to somebody who didn't own that 2 property, as far as I was concerned. Whether it was 3 sketches, notes, a pencil, a set of blueprints, or a nail, 4 they all belonged to the Dyers. 5 Q. Did the decision to do that have anything -- were 6 you upset? Did it have anything to do with your feelings 7 about being laid off? 8 A. No. They just happened to request all that 9 information and Landry & Foy never did. So I said, okay, 10 why not. I have no use for it. 11 Q. How long ago after Landry & Foy stopped working 12 on the project did you hand that information over to 13 Kristen and Eric? 14 A. Oh, boy. Probably that day, I think. And then I 15 know there was a couple of subsequent visits to help them 16 out with contractors who would potentially take over the 17 job. And I think one of the first visits back was within 18 a few months; probably handed over whatever I had. It has 19 been a year, so I'm trying to remember. I drive a utility 20 truck, quite a bit of materials and equipment, and so it 21 is possible that I came up with another sheet of paper or 22 something for them. It would be minor and inconsequential 23 stuff. 24 Q. Did you keep copies of anything that you gave to 25 Kristen and Eric? DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 10 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. No. 2 Q. Did you give them a copy of this job description 3 form? 4 A. I don't know if I gave that to them or not. 5 Q. Okay. Did you bring this job description form 6 which we'll mark as Exhibit B to the deposition today 7 because you felt that it was particularly important or 8 just because you had it? 9 A. Both. 10 Q. And what do you feel was important about this 11 document within the context of this lawsuit in this case? 12 A. Well, there has been the issue brought up of 13 productivity and billing hours involved on the job site. 14 Q. Who has brought that issue up? 15 A. Huh? 16 Q. Kristen and Eric brought that up? 17 A. They brought it up. I think it was brought up 18 when we had the last deposition. 19 Q. The mediation? 20 A. Mediation. It was brought up then. 21 MR. REDENBACHER: I should object to that because 22 everything said in mediation is confidential under the 23 mediation privilege. You really shouldn't talk about 24 anything that goes on at mediation. 25 (Deposition Exhibit B marked for identification.) DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 11 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 2 Q. Let me ask you this. Did anybody -- did Kristen 3 or Eric, not anybody; did Kristen or Eric ever bring up 4 issues of productivity while Landry & Foy was still 5 working on the job? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Do you remember at what stage? 8 A. Almost from the inception of the job. And it was 9 based on previous work they had done. And you know, they 10 are -- the Dyers are very observant people. They wanted 11 to keep close reins on the job and make sure they were 12 informed what was going on weekly, if not daily. I 13 afforded them as much daily information as I could. And 14 they did have some problems while observing the job site 15 about productivity and employees of Landry & Foy being 16 swapped out. Seemed to be an excessive rate coming and 17 going. So I felt this was important to them because as I 18 stated, I had problems with the qualifications of the 19 people on the job site actually doing what it was they 20 were supposed to be able to do. And there were questions 21 about that, and I had brought it up in foremen's meetings 22 about that. 23 Q. Your concern about employees being swapped out? 24 A. Employees being swapped out, changing the crew so 25 you change the tempo of the job, which is not in the DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 12 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 benefit of the home owner. It's in the benefit of the 2 contractor, not the home owner. The home owner observes 3 that the job has slowed down. There has been problems now 4 because we have people on the job site who aren't familiar 5 with the job. They have to start a new learning curve, 6 which is now being charged to the Dyers which shouldn't 7 be. There was also the issue of charging at a level for 8 certain individuals who I felt, and I don't think the 9 Dyers were not unfamiliar with it also, qualified at that 10 level of wage. 11 Q. Okay. Let me back up a little bit. I want to 12 get into a little bit of your background in construction. 13 Your current mailing address so I have it, what 14 is it? 15 A. Is that okay? XXXX XXXXXXX Boulevard. 16 Q. Is that a residence? 17 A. Uh-huh. 18 Q. 95XXX? 19 A. 95XXX. 20 Q. Okay. Aptos. Telephone number? The two numbers 21 that I have for you I believe are a residence phone and 22 your cell phone. 23 A. I give it to you yesterday. XXX-XXXX. 24 Q. And cell phone? 25 A. XXX-XXXX. 831 on both. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 13 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. We have an arbitration date set for April 2nd. I 2 think it will probably go three days. Are you available 3 during that time frame in the event you're called as a 4 witness in arbitration? I want to make sure that you are 5 around. 6 A. For three days? 7 Q. Three days; Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday. 8 MR. REDENBACHER: I doubt that you would be on 9 the witness stand for three days. 10 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 11 Q. Right. But during that time frame is there 12 anything that you can think of today that might prevent 13 you from participating if we need you to come and testify? 14 A. No. 15 Q. This is a standard question. I don't mean any 16 offense. Any prior felony convictions? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Did you graduate high school? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Which high school? 21 A. Soquel High School. 22 Q. What year? 23 A. '75. 24 Q. College degree? Do you have one? 25 A. I have an AS degree in mechanical engineering. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 14 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. From where? 2 A. Linn-Benton Community College. 3 Q. Where is that? 4 A. Albany, Oregon. 5 Q. Any other courses that you have taken towards 6 getting your bachelor's degree or higher degree? 7 A. Well, I have taken welding technology. I have 8 been certified to run heavy equipment. 9 Q. Who issued that certification? 10 A. I think the state issues it. They have to come 11 and test you and you get a card. It is required when you 12 operate heavy equipment on certain jobs that you have a 13 certificate and that way, you know, they know you are not 14 going to tip something over. 15 Q. Any other classes? 16 A. I have taken supplemental blueprint reading. 17 Q. Do you consider yourself proficient in blueprint 18 reading? 19 A. Absolutely. There is blueprint reading, there is 20 welding technology, and also machine technology that I 21 took while I was at the trade school. 22 Q. Which trade school? 23 A. Linn-Benton. 24 Q. Oh, the same one. 25 A. They consider it a trade school. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 15 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. Do you hold any licenses? Contractor's license? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Real estate license? Liquor license? 4 A. No. 5 Q. What about any certification that you might have 6 got through any of these tech programs, other than your 7 heavy equipment. 8 A. That is it. 9 Q. Any other vocational or apprentice training 10 you've had in construction? 11 A. Well, I have taken construction technology. That 12 was when I was in high school. And I did take that while 13 I was in college, but it wasn't -- 14 Q. Same college in Albany? 15 A. It wasn't for getting a degree. 16 Q. Just for personal interest? 17 A. Yeah. Are we only talking about classes 18 pertaining to this subject? 19 Q. Yeah, pretty much. I don't need to know about 20 macrame. 21 A. Music classes and composition and all that. 22 Q. Where are you presently employed? 23 A. I work for John Kelso Construction. 24 Q. K-e-l-s-o? 25 A. Yes. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 16 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. And where is that company located? 2 A. I don't have his address, but he is here in Santa 3 Cruz. 4 Q. Do you know what license that company holds? 5 A. It is a B. 6 Q. What type of work -- 7 A. General. 8 Q. What type of work does the company do? 9 A. He is a general contractor, so he does everything 10 from the ground up. 11 Q. How long have you worked at that company? 12 A. About ten months, 11 months. 13 Q. Is that the job that you got right after working 14 with Landry & Foy? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And what is your job title with Kelso 17 Construction? 18 A. Oh, finish carpenter. We just don't really give 19 each other titles. We just do our job. 20 Q. Percentage-wise how much residential versus 21 commercial work does Kelso Construction do? 22 A. He has another branch of his company that does a 23 lot of government, school work, and he has been doing UCSC 24 work, but I don't have any part of that. 25 Q. Do you do all residential? DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 17 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. Right now I am, yes, and have been doing 2 residential for over 25 years. 3 Q. Ever had a contractor's license? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Any reason why not? 6 A. You see what it does to these guys (indicating). 7 That is why. 8 Q. I'm not sure it is the license. 9 A. Without it they wouldn't be sitting there. They 10 would be carpentering or he would be an architect. 11 Q. Are you an hourly employee with Kelso 12 Construction? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. What is your rate? 15 A. $40. 16 Q. Full-time employment? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Does Kelso Construction have a certain number of 19 crew that works just on residential projects? 20 A. That depends on the size of the job and phase of 21 the job. We're down to a couple of carpenters right now. 22 Actually I think as of this week I will be the last 23 carpenter on the job. But they can run anywhere from five 24 or six guys that we were at this job to 15 or 20 that I 25 know of on the larger UCSC jobs. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 18 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. Are they a union shop? 2 A. No. 3 Q. When -- 4 A. They do have to pay prevailing wage because of 5 the contract stipulations. 6 Q. How many carpenters or how many employees does 7 John Kelso Construction have on payroll to do the 8 residential work? 9 A. You would have to ask him. That I couldn't tell 10 you. 11 Q. And you're working on a project right now in -- I 12 think you said in Hollister. 13 A. Far side of Hollister on Lone Tree. 14 Q. New construction or remodel? 15 A. New construction. 16 Q. Is it just a single family residence? 17 A. Yeah. 18 Q. How long has that project been going on? 19 A. For about ten months, nine months. 20 Q. Were you involved with any of the contract 21 negotiations on that project? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Any of the estimating on it? 24 A. Only from a small finish standpoint, and that is 25 taking lumber take-offs for finish work and cabinets and DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 19 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 all that on a small basis. 2 Q. Is it a fixed price contract, do you know? 3 A. No. 4 Q. T&M? 5 A. Uh-huh. 6 Q. What is the -- how many -- strike that. 7 On average how much guys are working on that job? 8 A. Again, it varies, depending on the phase of the 9 job and where we are at. But I have seen it gear up as 10 many as 50 guys and as few as 10. 11 Q. On this particular job? 12 A. Yeah. 13 Q. Including subcontractors and everything else? 14 A. Uh-huh. Maybe even more than 50. 15 Q. How many guys from Kelso just on average that are 16 on that job? 17 A. Three to four. 18 Q. Same three to four guys pretty much every time? 19 A. Uh-huh. 20 MR. REDENBACHER: Try to say "yes" or "no." It 21 makes the transcript a little bit cleaner. 22 THE WITNESS: Got it. 23 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 24 Q. Is that project that has been going on for ten 25 months pretty much the only project you have worked on for DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 20 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Kelso Construction? 2 A. Yes. Yes. There was one weekend we did a 3 one-day job installing a mantel and some doors on a job, 4 but you could say yes. 5 Q. Were you critical in any way of the fact they 6 were using a T&M contract on that job? 7 A. Am I critical of it? 8 Q. Yes. 9 A. Oh, no. No way. There is no way you could 10 control the cost under a bid. This job is 13,000 square 11 feet, $7 million, and the home owner makes it up as she 12 goes along, so there is no way you could bid that. 13 Q. Prior to Kelso Construction you were with Landry 14 & Foy? 15 A. Uh-huh. 16 Q. What was your job title with Landry & Foy? 17 A. Foreman. 18 Q. How long did you work for that company? 19 A. Do you remember, guys? I don't. 20 Q. You are testifying, so if you don't remember, 21 that is fine. 22 A. Six months, seven months. I'm guessing. 23 Q. Full-time employment with Landry & Foy? 24 A. Uh-huh. 25 Q. What was your rate of pay? DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 21 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. Started at $35 and went to $40. 2 Q. And while you were working for Landry & Foy did 3 you work on other projects besides Catalpa? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. All residential? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you were the foreman on all these jobs? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Carpenter on some? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. In any of the other jobs that you did for Landry 12 & Foy did you have any involvement with contract 13 negotiations? 14 A. No. 15 Q. What about with estimating? 16 A. Very minor point; maybe assisting on lumbar 17 take-off or something like that. 18 Q. If you had to estimate a residential construction 19 job, could you? 20 A. Oh, absolutely. 21 Q. Prior to Landry & Foy who did you work for? 22 A. Tom Rogers. 23 Q. Is that a Santa Cruz company? 24 A. Uh-huh. Tom Rogers Construction. He is over in 25 the Live Oak area. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 22 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. B license? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And residential as well? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. How long were you with Tom Rogers? 6 A. Five and a half years. 7 Q. When you left the company, what was your job 8 title? 9 A. Well, I guess you could call it carpenter, but I 10 did all the welding, fabrication, did all the heavy 11 equipment operation. I did a lot of their take-offs on 12 the project. In five and a half years, we were on one 13 house. 14 Q. Where was that project? 15 A. Monte Sereno. I also helped recruit all the 16 labor. I guess you could call me a site foreman or 17 coordinator. 18 Q. Where did you recruit those folks from? 19 A. A lot of them we got -- unskilled labor was 20 through places like Labor Ready and temporary agencies 21 that were available over the hill. The other places were 22 usually through people who knew of guys who needed some 23 work. We had several people on the job site too. Word of 24 mouth type thing. 25 Q. Why did you leave Tom Rogers Construction? DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 23 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. He didn't have any more work temporarily and that 2 was going to take about a month or two before he was going 3 to be gearing back up again, and I needed to pay rent and 4 eat. 5 Q. So it was a layoff based on work? 6 A. Yeah. A lot of us were sort of sitting around 7 waiting, and I happened to get this offer about 13,000 8 square feet. I'm over there. 9 Q. Meaning this house in Monte Sereno? 10 A. Landry & Foy cropped up during the time that I 11 was out of work for that month, month and a half, and I 12 interviewed with them through a newspaper ad. And then 13 after that, this job ended and then I went to the one in 14 Hollister. 15 Q. Okay. And what was your rate of pay when you 16 left Tom Rogers? 17 A. $45. 18 Q. And then prior to Tom Rogers who did you work 19 for? 20 A. That is a good question. Seven years ago. I 21 don't remember. It is over seven years ago. I would have 22 to go back and -- 23 Q. Was it a Santa Cruz contractor? 24 A. Yes, it was. Actually he lived in Half Moon Bay. 25 Oh, wait a minute. I do know. Marc Boudart. I think he DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 24 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 has moved to Watsonville now, changed his office. He had 2 an office in Menlo Park, and I think now he has an office 3 in Watsonville. 4 Q. How long did you work for that company? 5 A. Maybe a couple years with him. We built a couple 6 of houses, did Taqueria Vallarta on 41st Avenue. 7 Q. And why did you leave that company? 8 A. He ran out of work also. 9 Q. Were you a carpenter for that? 10 A. Foreman. 11 Q. You said you had 25 years of experience in 12 residential construction. Is that right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. All in the Santa Cruz area? 15 A. No. I started doing this to help pay my way 16 through college. And I was a broom and shovel operator in 17 Oregon. And I realized I didn't like a broom and shovel. 18 So I start asking questions, taking courses, and read a 19 lot of books and magazines and self-educated myself, for 20 the most part. And I decided I was going to buy a lot of 21 tools and learn how to build. 22 Q. When did you move to the Santa Cruz area? 23 A. To the Santa Cruz area? 24 Q. Or are you from this area? 25 A. No. This is the second time I have been here. I DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 25 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 was here through high school, four and a half, five years, 2 from '69 to '75, and then from there I moved to Oregon and 3 went to college, and then came back here in I think '79. 4 Q. And you have been doing construction in Santa 5 Cruz since '78 or '79? 6 A. Uh-huh; and while I was up in Oregon. 7 Q. Just quickly look at Exhibit B. Do you have a 8 copy in front of you? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Is this something that Landry & Foy, if you know, 11 gave to Kristen and Eric? 12 A. No. 13 Q. How did you get that document? 14 A. I became concerned about the individuals that 15 were sent out to the job site to help me build this house 16 about what they were telling me they were coming out to do 17 for me as far as level and them not being at that level, 18 or their idea of what should be a journeyman and their 19 capabilities and my idea of what a journeyman or laborer 20 should be, and their abilities seemed to vary somewhat. 21 So for clarification I asked them if they had anything in 22 writing for all of us, and I said this in the foremen's 23 meeting so we could all become more aware of the subject. 24 Is there anything in writing that would better clarify 25 what it is that they're basing their standards on for DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 26 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 hiring and designating individuals in the way through a 2 payroll slot and what we should be actually accepting as 3 far as a level of competence from that individual when 4 they come to the job site as a foreman. I was having 5 problems with their employees, and so this sheet helped 6 clarify where they were coming from and what I should as a 7 foreman on the job site be expecting out of that 8 individual. 9 Q. Do you recall the names of any individuals that 10 you had concerns about, any individual employees that 11 Landry & Foy sent out to the job? 12 A. Last names, no. First names, Dave, Matt, and 13 Pete. 14 Q. What was Dave sent out to do? 15 A. Dave was sent out and billed out as a journeyman, 16 I believe. 17 Q. What concerns did you have about Dave? 18 A. He was an ex-roofer who had never really built a 19 house. He had no tools, knew very little about the 20 nomenclature used on a job site, had to be guided by hand, 21 was not a journeyman. That is an entry-level apprentice. 22 Q. And what was Dave sent out to the Catalpa project 23 to do? 24 A. Be a carpenter as a journeyman. That is my 25 understanding. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 27 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. What particular tasks -- were there particular 2 tasks that you felt Dave was not qualified to do on the 3 project? 4 A. Just about everything. He couldn't do layout, 5 couldn't read blueprints, didn't understand basic layout 6 and mark-up on framing lumber. Some of the basic things, 7 like if you asked him to set up a cut station, which is 8 essentially a station where you take some saw horses and 9 some sort of set-up so you can cut lumber on and bring a 10 cord over and get it done, he didn't understand what a cut 11 station entailed, which is a basic carpentry thing on a 12 job site. Landry & Foy had difficulty then supplying 13 tools for these guys who didn't meet even the basic 14 requirements for a journeyman. They didn't have levels. 15 They didn't have hammers for themselves. The saws they 16 have didn't meet safety requirements that I think would be 17 okay on a job site. They had guards pinned up. They had 18 grounds missing off the electrical cords. All this is 19 maintenance I'm having to do with these guys on the job 20 site; so sort of prodding them and getting them to move 21 along. 22 Q. Did you express these concerns about equipment to 23 either Bob Landry or Greg Foy? 24 A. I have. I even brought it up. It got to be so 25 severe on the job site that I was bringing thousands of DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 28 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 dollars of my own personal equipment on the job site to 2 keep the job running. And it was brought up in the 3 context that is there a chance that Bob would be willing 4 to at least look into a way to do sort of a buy tools 5 incentive program. This was something that I proposed 6 during the foremen's meeting. I think we have good guys. 7 It is not to say these weren't good guys. And they were 8 motivated and they showed up on time. But they lacked 9 intelligence as far as their experience on a construction 10 site at the level they were billed at, and they lacked 11 tools. 12 Q. What was Dave being billed out at? 13 A. I believe he was being billed out as a 14 journeyman. You would have to ask Landry & Foy that. But 15 he had said that he was there as a journeyman. 16 Q. What about Matt; did you have concerns about 17 Matt? 18 A. I don't know what Matt was billed out at. I can 19 only assume he was billed out as an apprentice. 20 Q. Why do you say that? 21 A. Well, his skill level was very entry level. 22 Couldn't read blueprints. 23 Q. What were your concerns about him? 24 A. Well, he was there at a level that was just out 25 of being what I would consider a laborer. And he also had DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 29 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 difficulty with layout marks and framing. There were a 2 couple of aspects of the job that had to be tore apart and 3 put back together when they were clearly explained, even 4 after the layouts were done on the lumber. 5 Q. And that was explained to Matt? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. And you felt -- did you have a need for an 8 apprentice out at this job? I mean I would assume there 9 would be tasks that need to be done that would not be 10 assigned to a journeyman. 11 A. Correct. Absolutely. Matt is a good guy, and he 12 would admit it on the job site that he has not the highest 13 level desire to continue to be a carpenter, and he voiced 14 that on the job site. And it showed in his work. 15 Q. What did he desire to be? 16 A. I think he loved to surf. I don't blame him. 17 That is fine. And he is a fine young gentleman, but -- 18 Q. Was he a hard worker? 19 A. I would say yes. 20 Q. What about Dave; was Dave a hard worker? 21 A. I would say that Dave was a hard worker. 22 Q. What about Pete? 23 A. Pete was a different case. There is sort of a 24 personal side to Pete that had a detriment on how he 25 operated on the job site. And this had been discussed in DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 30 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 foremen's meetings about some of the personal problems 2 that he had and was having problems separating them from 3 the job performance that he was doing. 4 Q. What level was Pete? 5 A. Journeyman. And he was supposed to be an 6 advanced or a healthily equipped, both mentally and 7 tool-wise, journeyman. 8 Q. And who made that representation to you that he 9 was healthily equipped as a journeyman? 10 A. Either Bob or Greg. I don't remember. 11 Q. Meaning what; that he had the physical prowess to 12 do the job or whatever he had to do? 13 A. Mental acuity and the tools also. Yes. 14 Q. What personal problems do you feel undermined the 15 work he was doing out there? 16 A. Is it okay to talk about his personal life? 17 Q. Why not? 18 A. Well, I would rather not. 19 Q. But you just opened it up, so we kind of have to. 20 A. His wife committed suicide. 21 Q. And was that affecting his energy level? How did 22 that affect the work he was doing at the project? 23 A. Energy level up and down, focus up and down, 24 productivity up and down. Not that it was a real problem, 25 but it seemed to -- he needed to leave the job DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 31 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 occasionally for sort of therapeutic reasons, he said, and 2 I can understand that, but I don't blame him. 3 Q. Any other Landry & Foy employees that you had a 4 problem with on that project? 5 A. On the job site? 6 Q. Uh-huh. 7 A. We did have a laborer named Rudy, and I don't 8 know if he is still there. 9 Q. What was the problem with Rudy? 10 A. Well, it wasn't so much initially with Rudy. It 11 was that part of the construction scope was that we had a 12 laborer who was also considered a driver. I think that is 13 what Rudy was classified at. And he was I believe 14 classified to do some elementary carpentry work, but there 15 were times where -- one of the issues on the job site was 16 cleanliness. And I'm anal about it; organization and 17 cleanliness on the job site. And this was clear across 18 the board. We have problems with the dump run pickups, 19 and there were times where I call over to the office that 20 Rudy would have the truck and they didn't know where he 21 was. Like, okay, or when he would show up, it was 22 difficult to get Rudy to understand the details of what I 23 was expecting of him as the truck driver individual to do 24 clean-up on the job. So I had to overly monitor him. And 25 it seemed ridiculous. He should understand how to clean DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 32 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 up a debris pile and rake and empty trash cans. And if he 2 is given some time on the job site that he doesn't have to 3 be at a destination, he is also allowed to stay there and 4 help with labor work. And it was difficult to get him to 5 do anything. It was almost the chip on the shoulder 6 attitude when he was on the job site. 7 Q. Did he get the work done that he had to do? Are 8 you saying he didn't do it or you had a problem with how 9 fast he was doing it? 10 A. I would say 70/30. 30 percent of it he didn't 11 do, or it would be in the truck and he would be gone. Or 12 I'd ask him to do something and it wasn't finished, which 13 would mean I would have to take people that were supposed 14 to be doing construction work on the job site and finish 15 the job, which was either emptying trash cans or moving 16 lumber or stacking, something simple like that. So again, 17 it was an endeavor on my part to get that individual to 18 meet the qualifications that he was asked to do on the job 19 site. It shouldn't have been my job. 20 Q. Did your job include reviewing all of the 21 employees' time sheets at the end of the day or end of the 22 week? 23 A. Yes. Well, let me back up. Towards the end of 24 the job, I believe that is what we were doing; we were 25 monitoring them. It was a suggestion that I made during DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 33 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 the foremen's meetings towards the end of our employment 2 there that they were having what I consider a difficult 3 problem with monitoring hours and how they were getting 4 billed. When I initially started there was three or four 5 or five sheets of job duty codes that had to be assigned 6 to time sheets, and the individuals themselves were 7 supposed to be responsible for that. Well, it was a mess. 8 It was a mess. Clearly these guys were waiting until the 9 last two seconds to fill in their -- 10 Q. And were these -- 11 A. -- time sheets. 12 Q. -- code requirements the requirements of Landry & 13 Foy or Kristen and Eric? 14 A. Landry & Foy. And it was all due to their 15 computer system. And I understand that. And I've seen 16 that in other construction companies. Not to that extreme 17 with that many codes. And it got to be such a problem 18 that they sort of changed it. I recollect it changed 19 probably two or three times, how the time sheets were done 20 and the job coding. And then finally I said I think at 21 this point here we're going to try to groom it without 22 making any more of a mess of it, and the site foreman 23 could start a binder and each individual then will put 24 their time in daily. And that foreman at the end of the 25 day would make sure that they put their time down in that DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 34 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 code and try to groom it a little bit better so that the 2 individuals in the office who need that information would 3 better be able to utilize it. 4 Q. And you were the site foreman. Right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Did you take on the task of doing that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. But that wasn't implemented from the beginning of 9 the job? 10 A. No. 11 Q. And did you bill Landry & Foy to do that extra 12 work? 13 A. It wasn't extra work. It was done during regular 14 work hours. And I volunteered the idea trying to help in 15 some way because it was a difficult problem. It was part 16 of the foremen's meetings on how are we going to better 17 keep control of site information based on billing hours 18 towards certain tasks and how is that information compiled 19 in a legible manner. Legibility to the time cards was 20 also a major problem with handwriting. 21 Q. Were you responsible for entering the time 22 keeper's information at the office? 23 A. No. 24 Q. So was that a problem for you, legibility? I'm 25 wondering why you bring that up. Do you think that it was DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 35 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 a problem that resulted in overbilling, or why was that a 2 problem? 3 A. I couldn't say, other than I had heard it several 4 times that they can't read the time cards. I said, well, 5 if we're not going to change these fellows' penmanship 6 levels -- 7 (Interruption in proceedings.) 8 THE WITNESS: -- then we need to find a better 9 way to groom it. And toward the end of the job, I believe 10 it was finally -- things were being kept in the binder, 11 and that was the best answer I had. 12 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 13 Q. How did that help with illegibility? 14 A. It was my writing, and my writing is legible. 15 Q. But I assume you still had to read their time 16 sheets. You weren't filling out time sheets at a certain 17 point. 18 A. Oh, no. I didn't fill out time sheets. There 19 were sheets in a binder that they came to and gave me the 20 hours, or I watched them write it down. And that peer 21 pressure tends to make your penmanship upgrade a notch. 22 That is all I'm saying. 23 Q. So you provided this Exhibit B, if I'm 24 understanding you correctly, because you feel that given 25 these job descriptions, Dave, Matt, and Pete, and perhaps DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 36 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Rudy, didn't meet the description of the task for which 2 they were assigned, or the title for which they were 3 assigned out. Correct? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Did you review anything in preparation for 6 today's deposition? Documentation? 7 A. Huh-uh. 8 Q. Anything? 9 A. Huh-uh. 10 Q. Did you have any conversation -- 11 A. I got caught cold here doing this. I'm trying to 12 pull the best information from my memory, or in the last 13 ten months or so. 14 Q. If you had the time to review something, what 15 would you have reviewed so that you wouldn't be caught 16 cold? 17 A. I think probably would have been a one-on-one 18 meeting with the Dyers and we would do the best we could 19 to recollect the issues that they had come up against and 20 we could see if we were on the same page about what was 21 happening on the job site. That is all. 22 Q. Why would you need to feel like you are on the 23 same page? Do you feel that you were hired by them to 24 offer an opinion that is favorable to them? 25 A. No, not at all. Simply from the fact that what DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 37 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 they were observing is what was happening on the job site 2 to make sure that they were aware what was really 3 happening there. Because they are not builders, so -- 4 Q. Well, wasn't Kristen on the job quite often? 5 A. Uh-huh. 6 Q. And didn't they live right next door? 7 A. Right. But it is just like if you go to a 8 basketball game; you wouldn't be aware of what a 9 basketball player is doing out there on the game, but I 10 would. And you would tell the productivity of that team 11 by the score at the end of the day, but you wouldn't be 12 able to -- you are a fan in the seats. And how do you 13 equate your team losing? You're a fan. Unless you are 14 really educated and right there, it would be hard to tell 15 why your team wasn't coming through. 16 Q. Have you spoken with Kristen or Eric or 17 Mr. Redenbacher in preparation for today's deposition? 18 A. No. 19 MR. REDENBACHER: I was going to say I would 20 object if it is talking at the mediation. Again, you 21 shouldn't talk about the mediation. 22 THE WITNESS: Oh, we didn't do anything to prep 23 for this. 24 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 25 Q. Without talking about what happened at mediation, DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 38 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 in your own mind what was your understanding as to why you 2 were at that mediation? 3 A. My understanding was just to offer support. Not 4 personally, but to be there to offer support and any 5 information if any questions were to come up as to what 6 happened on the job site. 7 Q. Okay. 8 A. Again, I wasn't prepped before going there 9 either. I took the time off and showed up. 10 Q. Did you know Eric or Kristen prior to this 11 project? 12 A. Huh-uh. 13 Q. It seems like you've become friends. Is that 14 correct? 15 A. Yeah. They are good people. I mean I like to 16 make friends with all of our customers, whoever it is, you 17 know. That is the best way to keep your clients happy and 18 bring them back again. 19 Q. While you were working on the Catalpa project 20 were you working on any other job for Landry & Foy? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did they have any other jobs ongoing at the time? 23 A. Yes, but they were jobs that were also coming to 24 conclusions, and that also presented problems with 25 management on this job site. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 39 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. Why is that? 2 A. Well, one of the individuals that works for 3 Landry & Foy apparently previously had been promised this 4 project, and it created some tension in the office. 5 Q. Who was this? 6 A. I can't remember his name. I could picture him, 7 but if you ask Landry & Foy -- it is Greg's buddy. 8 Q. You were a foreman on the Catalpa project the 9 entire time you worked on that. Right? 10 A. Uh-huh. 11 Q. Did you finish out as a foreman until Landry & 12 Foy finished their work or were you let go earlier? Was 13 another foreman brought in to work on the job? 14 A. I believe towards the very end, that last day 15 that we were there; yes. Oh, yes. What is that name. 16 Q. This was another Landry & Foy employee. Right? 17 A. Yes. And he had been there for a while. Very 18 good character. Very smart. He did have the smarts and 19 the tools to come on the job. And I think he probably 20 would have done a very good job. 21 Q. But he was only there for about a day that you 22 recall? 23 A. He was there I think for a couple of days earlier 24 and then the day of the actual layoff. I'm trying to 25 remember whether he was there or not because there was DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 40 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 supposed to be the changing of the guard idea, and I think 2 he was there trying to get an idea what was going on with 3 the job before this crew was laid off and another crew was 4 brought on. 5 Q. When you say this crew was laid off, meaning 6 Landry & Foy's crew on the job? 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. And who was laying them off, Kristen and Eric? 9 A. No. Greg. 10 Q. Okay. Do you know why? 11 A. Well, too many people on the payroll. And they 12 wanted to keep people who they felt were more senior and 13 close to them personally within the company. And like 14 Greg said, this guy is my brother, he is like my brother, 15 so I need to give him the work. I said, well, I have told 16 you this ahead of time. I said if you do this, you know 17 that she is going to go ballistic. 18 Q. "She" being Kristen? 19 A. Uh-huh. She will be upset. And I have informed 20 Greg and Bob both that these are individuals who get very 21 comfortable with people when they are working on their 22 house. And it is also an issue that was brought up early 23 on in the project, and they were questioned and assured 24 that that would not happen on their job site; that the 25 crew would not change; that the people working on the job DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 41 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 site would stay consistent and familiar with the job from 2 the beginning to the end. 3 Q. Were you there when they were told that? 4 A. No, I wasn't there. 5 Q. Who told you that they were told that? 6 A. Kristen and Greg also. 7 Q. Let me ask you; you have a lot of years of 8 experience of residential construction. Do you think it 9 is reasonable to allow a home owner to dictate what 10 employees a contractor has on the job? 11 A. To dictate? 12 Q. I'm not trying to trip you up with words. I'm 13 interested in your opinion. You have a lot of experience. 14 What are your thoughts on that? 15 A. Well, my thoughts on that would be that business 16 is business and pleasure is pleasure. Change of the crew 17 was screwed up in a major way on that job site. It is why 18 we're here. To change the crew when they clearly had 19 expressed that it would not happen on the job site and 20 Kristen and her husband were comfortable with us, and 21 quality and performance on that job site, as far as the 22 type of construction going on, they made a major mistake. 23 You don't screw up like that in business. And I -- 24 Q. Let me back-track. Why is that a screw up? 25 You're running a construction company. You have several DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 42 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 projects going. Every morning I would assume you have to 2 decide -- 3 A. Let's back up on that. They don't have several 4 projects going. They were running out of work. They were 5 desperate for work. That is the problem. They were 6 shuffling people around in a desperate attempt to keep 7 their buddies employed. If you want to push me, it comes 8 down to this. They laid us off because he wanted to keep 9 his friends working. He didn't take into consideration 10 the ramifications of what he was doing. 11 Q. Ramifications on you, or on -- 12 A. On the home owners. I mean I have work. I can 13 go find work. It is not a big deal. And it was clearly 14 stated to Greg and Bob. I said, this is not the right 15 move to do. I said, you are going to make a major problem 16 here. I said, this is going to become a major speed bump 17 with them. And sure enough -- and I hadn't said anything. 18 She caught sight of what was going on. Greg didn't come 19 to the job site often enough. To see him there had the 20 home owner wondering what is going on. And all of a 21 sudden there is all these people milling around her house. 22 Q. The new guys that were assigned by Landry & Foy, 23 did you have concerns with any of them individually on the 24 quality of their -- 25 A. I only know of the foreman. And who was going to DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 43 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 be working with him -- I take that back. I think Matt 2 was going to stay on with him, maybe Pete. But I can't 3 think of the -- 4 Q. But I think you testified that you thought he was 5 a good guy. The foreman, the new -- 6 A. Oh, yeah. I think he was. I like him. Yeah. 7 Q. Did you ever tell Kristen or Eric that the new 8 crew coming in, hey, they're good guys, they'll do a good 9 job? 10 A. I think I have said that to Kristen, I think. 11 And we did talk about who wouldn't be probably a good 12 choice. And to Greg and Bob's credit, they picked the one 13 guy who can probably finish that job and make it happen. 14 Whether it was the right way to do it or not, I don't 15 know. 16 Q. Okay. Was Landry & Foy responsible for any 17 design of that project? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. In what way? 20 A. Well, I'm not entirely familiar with all the 21 aspects. I know there was a considerable amount of time 22 involved in designing the driveway overhang in regards to 23 the sun during the seasonal movement. There was changes 24 in some of the layout on the second floor. 25 Q. And you consider those to be design changes or DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 44 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 design issues? 2 A. Well, how far do you want to take this? We have 3 another half hour on this issue. The reason we're here is 4 because of that issue; the design and blueprints. Do you 5 want to open that up? 6 Q. Are you familiar with the term design-build? I'm 7 sure you are. Was this a design-build job? 8 A. Well, all I know is that originally it was 9 designed by architects with the intention that the 10 contractor was supposed to make field verification that 11 the blueprints would be applicable to the job site. 12 Q. Is making a field verification that blueprints 13 are applicable to the job site considered designing? 14 A. No. That is just field verification. 15 Q. That is something you don't need an architect 16 license for. Correct? 17 A. No. You are walking over to see if peg A is 18 going to fit in hole A. 19 Q. So that is more implementation of what is 20 represented on the plans at the job site. 21 A. Correct. 22 Q. Did you consider -- you didn't answer my 23 question. Did you consider the Catalpa project to be a 24 design-build project for Landry & Foy as you understand 25 the term? DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 45 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. No. There were some small issues about finish on 2 the exterior that I remember, but the rest was pretty well 3 cut and dried as far as the blueprints. The problem was, 4 and if you want to get into it, that the blueprints could 5 not be applied to that job site. 6 Q. Whose fault is that? Is it the architect or the 7 contractor that is implementing them? 8 A. If you have the blueprints here, clearly on one 9 of the sheets there is a big paragraph at the top 10 left-hand side that says the contractor is solely 11 responsible that these prints are applicable to the job at 12 hand; that they're supposed to see that the engineering 13 specs will work, supposed to check and see that all of the 14 things called out on the blueprints, that you can even do 15 them. And I wasn't on the job site with blueprints in 16 hand two hours before I realized we have a major snafu. 17 We were not going to be able to build that house based on 18 the blueprints. They never did a pre-site inspection. 19 Now, let me preface that. They have also been on 20 the job site already twice before. They have done two 21 projects for the Dyers. One was a bathroom addition which 22 cut into the walls and also allowed for individuals to be 23 under the house. The other one was a complete window 24 retrofit, which means every window in the house had been 25 pulled out and replaced. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 46 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. Were these jobs done at the same time, do you 2 know? 3 A. No. These were jobs done prior. They did a good 4 job. It is a nice little bathroom remodel. They did a 5 good job replacing the windows. The windows were 6 installed very well; waterproofed. The problem was they 7 didn't connect the dots. And by that I mean that this 8 house had substandard framing and substandard foundation. 9 And it was obvious to me within minutes of being on the 10 job site, having never been there before. Yet how is it 11 possible that Landry & Foy had been there on two complete 12 job projects, had cut into the house and exposed these 13 problems and put individuals with a training level who 14 should be able to observe these problems; all that 15 information was there, and yet they still didn't connect 16 the dots between that and engineering drawings that were 17 never going to be applicable to that job. 18 Q. Did Kristen or Eric make any changes to the 19 design of the project during the course of the project? 20 A. Cosmetically. 21 Q. Anything beyond cosmetic? 22 A. Well, they okayed changes to implement the new 23 engineered foundation and floor system that had to be paid 24 for and redesigned based on the things that I found on the 25 site with the foundation and framing being so substandard. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 47 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. What about engineering; were any engineering 2 structural changes made during the course of the project? 3 A. I just answered that. I said yes, the first 4 floor and foundation had to be completely re-worked, based 5 on the fact that it was substandard building and to meet 6 the new building codes and for it to be able to be applied 7 to the engineering blueprints that we had at hand. We had 8 to completely redo the foundation. We had to reinforce 9 the first floor and put a pony wall in, which was not part 10 of the original bid. These were additions above and 11 beyond the original bid, with costs incurred by the home 12 owner. 13 Q. What was the name of the architect on this 14 project, do you remember? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Winston, I want to say. Was he continuously 17 consulting with Kristen and Eric during the construction 18 of the project? 19 A. I don't believe so. I don't think there was a 20 lot of information passed between the home owners and 21 architect. 22 Q. Do you know whether or not he was fired at some 23 point during construction? 24 A. No. I have no idea. 25 Q. I believe the engineer was Hugh Zike. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 48 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 A. Yes. Very good guy. 2 Q. And was he consulting with Kristen and Eric? 3 A. Constantly. Well, no; not so much with Kristen 4 and Eric as with myself. And then we would work out 5 design, that the design was going to be able to work with 6 this house. And then as I understood it, then a package 7 was put together and presented to Kristen and Eric as to 8 the added expenses. 9 Q. Package put together by whom? 10 A. I would imagine Landry & Foy, the contractor. 11 Q. Based on the in-field design changes or 12 structural changes that were being made? 13 A. Because of the substandard foundation and framing 14 that we found that had already been seen and discovered 15 previously on the job site. 16 Q. What do you base that opinion on that you believe 17 that somebody -- 18 A. They have already done two projects. You have to 19 be a moron to not see that framing with substandard -- 20 trust me. I mean I was appalled at the fact that they 21 didn't pick up on that. 22 Q. And you think they should have picked that up as 23 doing part of the bathroom addition or window 24 retrofit? 25 A. Absolutely. You could see the damage. You could DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 49 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 see that the sub-framing was there. You could see the 2 difficulty that they had taking standard framing material 3 and installing it in a substandard environment with shims 4 and the way things were sort of glued. And it was a 5 difficult project. I didn't envy anybody who was out 6 there putting that little bathroom in. 7 And right there, I mean it was plain as day that 8 that house was not going to take -- the blueprints that I 9 was furnished with, you were never going to be able to 10 apply those. 11 Q. And you say because of framing problems? 12 A. Framing and substandard foundation. 13 Q. What other problems were there with the plans, in 14 your opinion? 15 A. Well, the plans, I could work with the plans. I 16 didn't have a problem with them. They were difficult to 17 interpret. I mean if you took them on a level of scale to 18 interpret, on a scale of one to ten they were probably 19 about an eight. But it was easy enough with 20 years of 20 experience to figure out what was being said here. It 21 wasn't a house that you couldn't build off those 22 blueprints. There was some questions that needed to be 23 clarified, but there wasn't anything extreme, other than 24 the fact that the engineering wasn't taken by the 25 contractor and looked at to see if it was going to work or DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 50 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 not. 2 Q. And you feel that is the contractor's job versus 3 the engineer's job? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. What do you base that opinion on? 6 A. Blueprints that were furnished to me. 7 Q. Did you feel that Kristen or Eric had -- qualify 8 this for me. Did they have a below average or above 9 average knowledge of basic construction during this 10 project? Do you have an opinion in that regard? 11 A. They have above average non-construction 12 experience knowledge. 13 Q. Both of them? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Would you consider them both to be smart? 16 Intelligent? 17 A. I would say yes. 18 Q. Above -- 19 A. Above average. Definitely above. 20 Q. Do you recall what Eric was doing for employment 21 during that project? 22 A. He was writing the software that software writers 23 use to write software. 24 Q. What about Kristen? What is her professional by 25 trade? I know she wasn't working, but what is her DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 51 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 profession? 2 A. I don't know. She was a mother and homemaker. I 3 know she had a profession before that, but it never came 4 up in the time that I was there. 5 Q. Again, you weren't present when the contract 6 negotiations were made between Kristen and Eric and Landry 7 & Foy. Is that correct? 8 A. I don't believe so, no. If I had been, it was in 9 passing. Not that I was ever a part of it. They may have 10 been in the office at one time while I was at the end of 11 the day or -- but never part of the negotiations. 12 Q. Are you involved with any construction work that 13 they are doing out there presently? 14 A. The only thing I gave them was the name and a 15 phone number of a guy who was a contractor, which is Marc 16 Boudart, who I worked for in the past. And I believe they 17 have taken up his offer to water-tight the outside of the 18 house for winter. I think that is it. 19 Q. Since you have left Landry & Foy's employ, have 20 you done any work directly for Kristen and Eric at the 21 house? 22 A. No. 23 Q. So they have never paid you directly for any work 24 that you have done at that project. Is that correct? 25 A. No, not -- DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 52 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. So they have never paid you? 2 A. I have made trips to help advise the new 3 contractor or the individuals just water-tighting the 4 house, where we were and what some of the materials were 5 for and where they were designated. There were some 6 details on the outside of the house about how to install 7 some skirt siding and just little construction things that 8 were going on. 9 Q. Are you doing that more as a friend or are you 10 being compensated for that? 11 A. I'm not being compensated. Just I know Marc and 12 I know the Dyers. 13 Q. Do you socialize with them? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Are you being compensated in any way by Eric or 16 Kristen for your participation in this lawsuit at all? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you expect to be? 19 A. Expect to be, no, I wouldn't expect to be. No. 20 Q. Have you -- I know you have a lot of experience. 21 Have you ever worked as a construction expert or 22 consultant in any capacity? 23 A. Only in a minor way. I have been pulled on a few 24 jobs sites in the past occasionally to look at something 25 and asked something or what my opinion is; the way DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 53 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 something is built or put together or certain amount of 2 work progress being done and that sort of thing, just 3 occasionally for friends or other people. 4 Q. Have you ever qualified in court or at an 5 arbitration proceeding as a construction expert? 6 A. No. 7 Q. So if you are called to testify at arbitration, 8 do you have any opinions regarding Landry & Foy's handling 9 of this project that we haven't talked about today? 10 A. Say that one more time. 11 Q. If you are called to testify at arbitration, are 12 there any opinions that you have about Landry & Foy's 13 handling of the Catalpa project that you haven't talked 14 about already? 15 A. Any opinions? Yes, I do have a few. 16 Q. Why don't you tell me about those. 17 A. One is I think a lot of this stems from the lack 18 of communication between the home owners and the office. 19 It was stated almost at every foremen's meeting that I was 20 at that I needed Greg to be more of a participant and on 21 the job site. He was essentially the project manager. 22 And while I like Greg and have known Greg for years, we 23 actually knew each other prior to this project from the 24 bicycle shop and mountain bike riding in the area. So it 25 was nice to see him again. So I felt relieved that I was DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 54 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 going to be able to work with a group of people that I was 2 somewhat familiar with after having lived out of the area 3 -- or I mean worked out of the area for so long. But I 4 was disappointed with the lack of participation on Greg's 5 part. Appointments weren't kept. The number of visits 6 that I would think even minimal at the job site to work 7 out problems with the home owner wasn't even met. There 8 were several times that Greg had stated to me that I 9 shouldn't be taking on some of the work done on the job 10 site because I was essentially doing a lot of his work. 11 The ordering of materials, the securing of hard to find 12 materials, some of the scheduling. And I think it stated 13 on that sheet what the project manager's responsibilities 14 are. But a lot of these project manager's 15 responsibilities I was doing. I didn't mind doing it. 16 I'm only a piece of paper away from being a contractor 17 myself, so it is not a big deal. It is just as easy as 18 washing my hands for me. 19 The issue was that being told to rely more on him 20 when I couldn't was troubling for everybody on the 21 project. I could take one single exam. When we got to 22 the outside of the house where we were going to start to 23 do the outside trim, the exterior fascia window trim, I 24 had started voicing my concerns about the office not 25 participating as much as they said they would. So Greg at DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 55 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 this point said, okay, don't worry about it, I will take 2 care of getting the whole outside trim package together 3 for you. And I let it go for a few days without any 4 result on it. And I have to keep a schedule on the job 5 site. I have a pretty good insight on what needs to 6 happen as far as when the phone calls need to be made, 7 when the materials need to be ordered, and the amount of 8 labor I need to install those materials in a specified 9 manner. The problem was it was getting pretty close to 10 crunch time for these materials. Finally it got to the 11 point where Greg said, okay, you do the take-offs. 12 Take-offs are the actual measurements. And originally he 13 said he would do it. So I said I will do it for him. So 14 I will give him a rough idea when I need the materials 15 delivered, only to find out that I had given the list to 16 him and it is under about four layers of crap on his desk. 17 This is the oddest thing abut this office. It is a 18 spotless office. Everyone is professional. Everyone has 19 something to do, until you get to Greg's section, and 20 stuff is piled up and things aren't done. I find my list 21 under about four layers of paperwork. I had to do the 22 work myself. I barely was able to secure the materials 23 within time to get this guy's work done on the outside. I 24 was looking at giving guys time off because we didn't have 25 materials on the job site. I don't mean this personally, DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 56 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 and I wouldn't want Greg to get pissed off at me. I like 2 him as a regular guy. 3 Q. I think we are way past that point. 4 A. But the bottom line is that he didn't do his part 5 and it made it difficult for me to do my part because it 6 added to my workload. I shouldn't have been doing as much 7 correspondence with the home owners. Don't get me wrong. 8 I didn't mind doing it. I got answers. 9 Q. How were you corresponding with them? Just 10 telephone calls? E-mail? 11 A. Knock on the door. They are two houses away. 12 And finally, I'll be honest with you. Andy is a great guy 13 too. And I voiced these problems to Andy, and Andy 14 finally told me one day, he told me, Charles, if we're 15 going to get this house built, we're going to have to go 16 around Greg. That is the only way to get this done. I 17 mean that was an admission from somebody in the office 18 that realized there was a project manager problem in that 19 office. And that essentially if that workload for that 20 individual was going to get done, it had to be done by 21 other people. So I don't mind doing it, but you know. 22 Q. I think that in what you have just said, you are 23 implying that there was a delay because the materials 24 didn't get ordered. 25 A. There was never a delay because I made the phone DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 57 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 calls at the last minute, the eleventh hour to get the 2 materials there, knowing that it wasn't going to be done 3 like they said it was going to be done. 4 Q. So if there was no delay and you were able to get 5 the job done -- and you were paid for your job. Right? 6 A. Uh-huh. 7 Q. You were paid for the hours you put in on the 8 project? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. Why would you think that that would be a 11 financial offset to what Landry & Foy is claiming they're 12 owed in this lawsuit? 13 A. Because instead of me focusing more on doing 14 layout on the job and getting the walls done and 15 monitoring these guys and making sure they are doing their 16 correct job procedures, all the detail, the actual 17 mechanical part is being done, I'm at my truck on hold 18 with a cell phone ordering materials, making lists and 19 scheduling things that I was told was not my 20 responsibility. So mistakes were getting done on the job 21 site because the lack of experience from employees that I 22 was given. You could only allow a certain length of time 23 at a difficulty level to allow those guys to run on their 24 own before they get themselves in trouble. So while I was 25 doing Landry & Foy's job on the hood of my truck, I'm also DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 58 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 having to monitor guys at work that weren't adequately 2 qualified to do the level of work that they were sent 3 there to do. 4 Q. Any mistakes made on your watch by employees that 5 you couldn't watch because you were on the phone? 6 A. Uh-huh. There were some reframing problems. 7 Yeah. There was some accuracy problems, coming within 8 acceptable tolerances on building a wall and squaring it 9 up. And you know, the fit and finish on how a guy uses a 10 framing gun, whether he puts one nail or two nails, 11 whether he puts trim under a header that is load bearing, 12 and he's putting three nails or whether he is putting the 13 eight required. All that sort of stuff. 14 Q. Did all that sort of stuff get rectified though? 15 A. Sure. Yeah. But it should have been done the 16 first time and paid for once instead of twice. And that 17 is the problem here. 18 Q. Do you know that they paid twice for any -- 19 A. Sure. If you have a guy with a nail gun and it 20 takes 30 seconds or a minute to pin off a door opening, 21 that nail gun gets taken away and a hose gets taken down 22 and gets put away, and then it's got to get taken out 23 again, you've got to nail it again -- 24 Q. Okay. And have you seen any billing records 25 indicating that they were billed twice for any work on DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 59 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 that job? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Where are those records? 4 A. Those time sheets that I turned in. If I paid 5 that guy for eight hours today to do that doorway and part 6 of that time is billed to that doorway and he didn't 7 complete it, and then the next day we bill them again for 8 him to take that same gun to the same doorway to do the 9 same nailing he should have done the first time, that 10 sheet got turned in, that sheet got turned in, and they 11 got billed for that one and they got billed for that one. 12 Q. And how do you know they got billed for that one 13 and that one if you weren't in the office? 14 A. Nobody came up short on their hours, or I would 15 have heard about it if guys were being deducted for their 16 mistakes. 17 Q. But aren't you assuming that the employer would 18 have had that deducted? Isn't it true that often the 19 employees don't and the contractor has to eat it? 20 A. Well, no, because there was no loop for me to go 21 through, and there is no system that was employed at 22 Landry & Foy that allowed me to document work that had to 23 be done two or three times and then go back to the 24 employee and deduct it because of his mistakes, and then 25 that would have been deducted from the bill that goes to DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 60 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 the home owners. There was no system for that. Mistakes 2 were made. The home owners paid for the mistakes. 3 Q. Are you -- stop for a moment. Are you stating 4 that generally, or do you know for a fact as you sit here 5 today that Eric and Kristen were double-billed or 6 triple-billed or over-billed for mistakes made on the job? 7 A. I didn't do the office paperwork. 8 Q. So is your answer no? As you sit here today -- 9 A. My answer is I did not do the office paperwork. 10 Q. I'm going to strike the answer if you don't give 11 me a definitive answer. 12 Is your answer that you don't know for a fact 13 whether or not there -- whether or not there were any 14 mistakes in billing on this job? 15 A. Any mistakes in billing? That is a different 16 question. 17 Q. You're right. Let's back-track. 18 Any mistakes or any over-billing because of 19 mistakes? 20 A. I would say yes, there was. 21 Q. And you know that for a fact today. You could 22 back that up with what? 23 A. The fact that nobody came up short on their 24 timecard. If somebody put in 40 hours that week, they got 25 paid for 40 hours that week. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 61 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. But you're assuming -- aren't you assuming in 2 that answer that when there was a mistake made that that 3 would be allocated to the employee that made the mistake 4 and they would deduct the wages? You're assuming that 5 that is what would happen. Correct? 6 A. Oh, no. I just said there was no system. There 7 was no system for personal and professional responsibility 8 on that job site. Let me give you a little bit of 9 information. When I grew up doing this stuff, I grew up 10 and a guy was essentially made to feel like shit as a 11 laborer and you had to go through that huge speed bump to 12 see if you were qualified to go out there and be a 13 carpenter. It is not an easy job. Anybody who has done 14 it realizes it is not an easy job. I took a lot of dirt. 15 I pushed a lot of brooms. And the only way to get over 16 that hump was to teach you how to be responsible for what 17 it is that you do. If you make a mistake on the job site 18 like that, it is not unusual for a responsible individual 19 to own up to it. And I will put the extra hour in at the 20 end of the day to make my mistake good because it is the 21 right thing to do. You couldn't get one of these guys to 22 do something like that or at the least bit volunteer to 23 make good on mistakes they did on the job site and come 24 back and make good for it. 25 Q. And you're talking about the employees that DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 62 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 were -- 2 A. I'm talking about the employees that were on the 3 job site. I would express to them, that is a bad mistake, 4 you shouldn't have done that, and I instructed you three 5 times on what to do. 6 Q. You said that in your opinion there was problems 7 with communication between Eric and Kristen and Landry & 8 Foy. Is that correct? 9 A. Not between Eric and Kristen. Between the Dyers 10 themselves and Landry & Foy. I wouldn't say there was 11 difficulty in communication. I would say there was a lack 12 of communication. There just was not enough response 13 coming out from the office. 14 Q. And what other opinions that you feel that we 15 haven't addressed in this deposition? 16 A. I think that is probably good for now. 17 Q. I need to know if it is good for now, because if 18 you bring it up in arbitration, I'm going to ask you why 19 you didn't bring it up today if you really felt it was a 20 concern. 21 A. Well, I have stated there was a tooling problem, 22 so I want to make sure that is part of the record. 23 Q. I'm assuming that the tooling problem never led 24 to something not getting done eventually. Correct? 25 A. Eventually. In the word "eventually," you are DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 63 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 talking about time and materials being shoved around to do 2 something that should have been done based on the fact 3 that tools that should have been on the job site at a 4 certain time to get something done, which means you have 5 to shuffle. 6 Q. But your job -- 7 A. Lack of efficiency. 8 Q. But your job as foreman was to fill in the gaps 9 and keep everyone busy on the job site. 10 A. Absolutely; which always happened. Everybody 11 always had something to do. 12 Q. Any other opinions that you feel like we haven't 13 talked about today with respect to Landry & Foy's handling 14 of that project? 15 A. No. I don't think that at this point I can 16 relate anything else that is important at this point. To 17 tell you that I don't get in my truck and remember 18 something, I can't guarantee that. Like I said, I didn't 19 train for this. I'm just out of the blue. I have never 20 given a deposition before. 21 MS. DiBENEDETTO: We've been going an hour and a 22 half. Let's take a break. 23 MR. REDENBACHER: Sure. 24 (Break taken.) 25 // DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 64 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 BY MS. DiBENEDETTO: 2 Q. Back on. 3 So we took a ten-minute break. Anything else, 4 any other opinions, anything that comes to mind that you 5 might be offering at arbitration as testimony concerning 6 Landry & Foy's work on the project at Catalpa Street? 7 A. No. I wish there was more that I could add and 8 make this thing painless for everybody, but I can only 9 give the information to you as I see it and from a 10 foreman's standpoint on the job site. I think it sucks 11 that I'm caught in the middle of this because I like these 12 guys and like those guys, and I'm in the middle of this 13 thing. And I want everybody to get the best here for what 14 they deserve without one person taking advantage of 15 somebody else. 16 Q. Okay. Let me ask you a couple of follow-ups. 17 Had Greg been more involved in their project, 18 would you have expected the home owners to pay for his 19 involvement as project manager on an hourly basis? 20 A. Pay for his time as a project manager? 21 Q. Uh-huh. 22 A. Well, I don't have a business degree so I don't 23 know how that would work. You are formulating a question 24 that would put me in a position of making a business 25 decision. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 65 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. You were paid for your time whether it was 2 consulting with the home owners and design or engineering, 3 whatever issues, or actually using a hammer. Correct? 4 A. Right. 5 Q. All the guys doing the construction were paid for 6 their work. 7 A. Right. 8 Q. Had Greg become involved as project manager, 9 would you expect as project manager he would be paid 10 hourly for his work on that particular project? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Why is that? 13 A. Who owns the company? And who gets the profit at 14 the end of the project? 15 Q. Based on their capabilities and management. Greg 16 Foy is an employee of Landry & Foy, the corporation. 17 A. Correct. So that check at the end of the 18 project, the profit once everything is paid goes to these 19 guys. Why would they expect to collect another wage on 20 top of that? See, that is a business decision. I don't 21 know how that works. I build houses. I put parts 22 together. That is what I do for a living. Whether he 23 should have gotten an additional fee on top of the fact 24 that you would take a portion of the profit at the end of 25 the job, it doesn't seem ethical. DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 66 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 Q. I think what I'm getting from you is you don't 2 feel you're qualified to answer that. 3 A. I don't know how that works in the business 4 world. It seems odd, doesn't it? 5 Q. Not to me. 6 A. Really. 7 Q. You are a sole proprietor. You own a company. 8 You're a one-man shop. Shouldn't you be paid for the 9 hours you put in the job? You are the business owner. 10 A. Well, that is why you make a bid. 11 Q. But this was not a bid job. This was T&M. 12 Correct? 13 A. Yeah. 14 Q. This was not a fixed bid. 15 A. But I think if you check the paperwork, while 16 they were paying me 40 they were probably billing me out 17 at 70. So they get that profit. Do they need more 18 profit? 19 Q. Is that a profit or mark-up to cover soft costs; 20 workers' comp, insurance, things like that. 21 A. Again, that is a business question. I'm not 22 running a calculator. I don't know how it was. 23 Q. Okay. Have you ever served in the military? 24 A. No. 25 MS. DiBENEDETTO: I'm going to give you your DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 67 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 check. This is the statutory fee as a third party for you 2 showing up today. And I appreciate your time. I have no 3 more questions. 4 5 (The deposition of CHARLES A. CAMPBELL was concluded at 11:40 a.m.) 6 7 8 ___________________________ CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 9 10 11 Subscribed and sworn to before me 12 this _____day of______________, 2007 13 ____________________________________ 14 ____________________________________ 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 68 PARAGON REPORTING SERVICES 1 CERTIFICATE 2 3 I, ROBIN E. RIVIELLO, a Certified Shorthand 4 Reporter in and for the State of California, hereby 5 certify that the witness in the foregoing deposition, 6 CHARLES A. CAMPBELL, 7 was by me duly sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth, 8 and nothing but the truth in the within-entitled cause; 9 that the foregoing is a full, true and correct transcript 10 of the proceedings at the taking of said deposition to the 11 best of my ability. 12 DATE: December 20, 2007 13 14 ____________________________ ROBIN E. RIVIELLO, CSR, RPR 15 License No. 11694 16 17 Signing of the deposition of the deponent was 18 conditionally waived at the time of the taking of the 19 deposition. 20 21 Upon completion of the foregoing transcript, the 22 witness was notified it was ready for signature, but the 23 deposition was not signed by the witness for the following 24 reason: _______________________________________________ 25 ________________________________________________________ DEPOSITION OF CHARLES A. CAMPBELL 69